American PI/Inerview with Gary Osborn

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American PI: An Interview W/ Gary Osborn
==PART I/North==
MAD- www.nwowatcher.com
7/04/06

“The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science.”
-Albert Einstein

“There is great treasure there behind our skull and this is true about all of us. This little treasure has great, great powers, and I would say we only have learnt a very, very small part of what it can do.”
-Isaac Bashevis Singer

"Every writer is a frustrated actor who recites his lines in the hidden auditorium of his skull."
-Rod Serling

The dog days begin on July twenty-three, barking and biting at the cat up the tree. Scattered by frenzy brought together by glee, Sirius rising like the high tide of the sea. The belt of Orion, great Saturn’s rings, stand at attention towards the pillars of Heracles. The fire is burning, the potion is brewed, a planet keeps spinning beneath the full moon. The sun and the heavens doth mark claim to the time, as Chronos is turning the cauldron divine. Apples are falling in myth and in lore, as a worm keeps on squirming and rottens the core. Muses are singing nine melodies of verse, volcanoes erupting for the Greek gods of the hearth. Forging forms from the mire, reflections chiseled in stone, Mt. Olympus is ascending from the goddesses’ foam. Bubbles are rising, and bubbles they fall, beaconed to witness by the Siren’s haunting call. Dagon is waiting, and Marduk does stir, the Druids are building a wicker man to burn. A dragon is smiling, forked tongue licks the flames, the Frost Giants marching to witness the games. On Dasher, on Dancer, on Comet on Blitzen, a new year awaits us, the Vampire has bitten. The ones who seek claim over all that they see? The All-Seeing Eye of July twenty-three.

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MAD: Gary, thanks so much for the interview. I've been looking forward to this one for awhile. Firstly, for those who might be new to your groundbreaking research and theories, how did you initially get involved in this line of study? What experiences helped lead you to these discoveries?

G.O.: Hi Mike, first of all thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about my work and my recent research projects. You ask about my experiences. Well, how I came to my own discoveries and theories is a phenomenon in itself. From 1989 and through the early 90s my brother Paul and I experienced a wave of sometimes intensive 'paranormal' phenomena. The events surrounding these experiences and the experiences themselves will hopefully be published in the near future.

We were both largely skeptical about the paranormal and had no interest in mystical or metaphysical subjects. Being brought-up in a working-class family living in Peckham southeast London, we consider ourselves 'down-to-earth' and so we could find no cause or 'trigger' for these experiences.

However, in hindsight, we both began to remember similar events in our childhood - 'unexplained' occurrences which we had largely forgotten about or had buried in the back of our minds, which we then shared for the first time in our many discussions.

We also started having some profound insights into the nature of reality, and began to see the deeper connections between circumstances. These events and the many discussions we were having interfered with our working life, as we were both managing a family business at that time. In any case, it soon became apparent that these recent experiences also appeared to be leading up to, or centered around a 'mystical experience' which my brother had on June 7, 1991. Paul named this experience the 'energy phenomenon', and his life was never the same afterwards. This 'awakening' revelation changed him as well as those around him.

To summarise, Paul said that he felt the vibrations of a "powerful energy" concentrated along his spine, which had coursed its way up and down the full length of his body. He then felt the oscillations of this energy gain in frequency ending suddenly with a "bright white, explosive flash" in the centre of his head. My own encounter with this 'energy phenomenon' happened some two years later in November 1993 and was very similar to my brother's core-experience. We both experienced OBE’s (Out of Body Experience) during this time, and some of these miraculous events also contained certain characteristics that one would associate with UFO and abduction-related phenomena. After some in-depth investigation that spanned the vast field of paranormal and mystical materials, we both discovered that the phenomenon we had experienced was related to what some people called a "Kundalini Awakening". We had never heard of it before.

We found that Kundalini' is an ancient Sanskrit term related to the fulfillment of 'illumination' or 'enlightenment.' Although it is virtually unknown here in the West, Kundalini has really been responsible for the spiritual side of man's religious impulses throughout history. In the East, skilled Yogis can spend a lifetime trying to reach the enlightenment associated with a 'Kundalini Awakening' via the disciplined practice of Yoga - most of them never reaching their goal. However, we discovered that this experience is now happening to more and more people in the West and spontaneously - without any prior knowledge or instruction. As a result of my own experiences, I began to write down the insights that were coming to me everyday. I followed up the notes I made with some in-depth research, and discovered that many of the conclusions I’d come to had already been preserved in the esoteric literature pertaining to the various mystery schools. To my amazement I also found that I had made some new connections and discoveries and could apply my insights to many different disciplines of established knowledge - recognizing the very 'all-non-thing' that seemed to connect the main principles relating to each of these different disciplines together.

I then began to develop what I call the 'Neutral Point Theory' of consciousness - similar to Gurdjieff's 'Third Force' and the Jung's 'Third Reality'. The Neutral Point is where the opposites associated with duality and our dual perception become fused as one or cancelled out altogether. This is basically what happens internally during the Kundalini experience.

Put it this way, before these experiences began, I just didn't write – not even letters. But in the two years subsequent to these experiences, insights were coming to me everyday; a virtual explosion of information, and I found I had written enough to fill 5 volumes. Again, this is a phenomenon in itself and this puzzled many members of our family and friends, because I had no aspirations to becoming a writer or author and really had no knowledge of or interest in these things before the experiences.

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MAD: Along with Philip Gardiner you are the co-author of the underground best selling books, The Shining Ones, and The Serpent Grail. Your next book, entitled Axis of God will be released early next year and deals in some very thought provoking, and some would even say controversial subject matter. Readers can find online, illustrated excerpts from your book in the article - "Gate of God" - found HERE in Part I, as well as HERE in Part II, and HERE which continues the piece.

Before we really get into the unique nature of your research, would you mind setting the stage for some of what will be covered in Axis of God? From astrotheology and hidden codes in the Giza Pyramid design, to classical French artwork, secret societies and sacred landmarks, your book will cover many angles (no pun intended). Could you elaborate on the basic thesis of your next book?

G.O.: Yes, the main thesis and the related themes presented in Axis of God – as well as the book that will hopefully follow it, is really what these insights, as a result of my own experiences, were/are leading me to. I will try and be as brief as I can.

-These are the main points:-
The book presents a major discovery; that the Great Pyramid and other monuments at Giza contain geophysical information concerning the earth's orbital dynamics - the result of its inclined axis at 23.5 degrees. The Great Pyramid is also pointing to its own location on the earth.

I show that the Giza Complex is an ancient 'precessional clock' utilised as a means to monitor the cycles of time and that it was also used as an initiation temple and as a means to 'escape' these cycles - as was believed one could.

We find that many elements of the Jesus story as told in the Gospels, are astrotheological; that the story was largely based on the astronomical alignments observed at Giza and the tracking of the constellation of Orion as well as the shadow phenomena associated with the Great Pyramid during the equinoxes and solstices. But more than this, I say the Jesus story was also based on what the pyramids were used for originally - especially with regard to initiation into the shamanic trance states, the mysteries of life, death and rebirth (reincarnation), and the Kundalini 'enlightenment experience' - knowledge of which was later preserved by the Gnostics, the Templars and the Freemasons, to name but a few.

The book also reveals how the original shamanic and pagan conceptions that were used by the Church to establish that Christianity was originally based on the 'resurrection god' and the rebirth of the 'saviour' who was believed to have the power to 'resurrect' the earth's axis to its vertical position and bring back the balance of the Golden Age in terms of healing the duality and imbalance in human consciousness. The book will also cover what I believe to be the true purpose of Giza and how the information contained there has been known and kept a secret throughout history. This great secret has been kept from the elite members of the Church, who would have considered it the 'greatest heresy', mainly for the reasons given above.

I also reveal that this same information had been encoded in several major works of art from the Baroque Period (17th century). Indeed it was by deciphering the codes in these works of art that I was then led to the discovery of the encoded information in the Great Pyramid and the geometrical ground plan at Giza. The primary source for this information is the Jesuit painter Nicolas Poussin (1594-1665). It is believed by many that Poussin's paintings contain a cipher or code.

Well, now this code has finally been deciphered, and I say the code is linked to Giza and goes further than any pentagonal geometry found in the painting and has no 'direct' link with the Rennes le Château mystery - a connection that most people have followed ever since the publication of Holy Blood, Holy Grail in 1982.



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MAD: A key point of importance which acts as a running theme throughout your work is that of the 23.5 degree angle connections within not only the pyramids, but hidden codes found throughout classical artwork. Readers can find more evidence of the 23.5 axis relations in my recent article entitled: Two-Three, or not Two-Three.

Nicolas Poussin for instance, who is heralded as the father of classical French artwork in the 17th century, has been one of the inspirations for your findings. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you're virtually a real life Robert Langdon; so it should come as no surprise that you've also found a 23.5 code in Leonardo Da Vinci's well known "Vitruvian Man". What are some of the factors for why you believe Poussin was incorporating secret messages through his artwork in relation to the great pyramids and the axis of the earth? Are there other artists who are revealing this same message?

G.O.: Yes it appears that there were other artists who have encoded the same information – and that this is still evident today. I am certain that Poussin encoded this information about the great Pyramid in his paintings, because after having found certain related alignments in several of his major works, the information then led me to make a grand discovery about the Great Pyramid; that it contains data about the obliquity (tilt) of the earth’s axis and other geophysical statistics. I have found similar alignments in the art of Michael de’ Maier – a 17th century alchemist and Rosicrucian; also many references in numerous Vanitas paintings by Edward Collier, a Dutch artist of the 17 century.

Going back to Da Vinci’s Vitruvian Man, as a matter of interest, if we take the circle around Vitruvian Man as marking the circumference of the earth, and if we then section it into 6 lattitude segments, then the position of the heart on which these 23.5-degree lines intersect each other, would be at the lattitude of Giza and the Great Pyramid – being just under 30-degrees N of the Equator. Like a large winding serpent, the River Nile – the longest river in the world - would therefore align with the length of the spine of Vitruvian man, who also takes the same posture as Jesus on the Cross.

It is also said that the first Zero 'Prime Meridian' ran through Giza - as marked by the Great Pyramid - and so the Giza Prime Meridian too would align here with the spine of Vitruvian Man. The many connections we can extrapolate from this one drawing alone are intriguing, but whether these additional connections were known by Da Vinci himself and intentionally encoded in the drawing is another thing.

Also I should mention that the angle of 23.5º is even referenced in one of the most infamous symbols of them all – the “All-Seeing Eye” in the detached and floating capstone of the pyramid from which rays of light radiate. This symbolic image which is on every US Dollar bill is really a reference to the Great Pyramid of Giza which is missing its capstone and it’s amazing how people have overlooked this 23.5-degree reference. However saying this, I am also amazed at the large number of people who don't know that the earth is tilted at 23.5 degrees - or that it is even tilted!

I have researched into Poussin's background and I provide new evidence that Poussin received his information through his associations with one of the greatest minds of his age, Athanasius Kircher, who knew the English explorer and mathematician, John Greaves. It was Greaves who visited Giza and measured the Great Pyramid.

The 'believed' event that nearly wiped-out the human race and caused the axis to tilt from its upright position explains the symbolism related to death' in Poussin's 'Arcadian Shepherds' paintings and other similar paintings from the period which also feature staffs, skulls and crosses. The skull also makes an appearance in Shakespeare's play Hamlet, and which as many of us now know via the celebrated book Hamlet's Mill, (1969) is really based on the Osiris myths. It was believed that with the fall of the axis, man "fell" into cycles headed by the Cycle of Precession.

Furthermore I reveal that the associative information which had been encoded in the monuments at Giza, has also been encoded in the landmarks of Paris - especially the glass pyramid that stands in the Louvre courtyard commissioned by the Jesuit president of France, Francois Mitterand.

In addition to this, there is startling new evidence that the glass pyramid also has a special relationship with Poussin's last paintings The Four Seasons that are presently on display in a special room in the Louvre. (The seasons are the result of the earth's axis being tilted at 23.5 degrees).

In the book I attempt to decode the true purpose of the old Paris Meridian and how it is linked with Giza and the Great Pyramid as well as the ancient shamanic and pagan beliefs surrounding the source-centre of creation and the conceptual return of the Messiah - the one whom it was believed reincarnates on earth to right the imbalance caused by the tilt of the axis resulting in
the "fall of man".


Da Vinci’s Vitruvian Man

In bringing all this to light, I sweep away the theories posed by books like The Da Vinci Code, and reveal the real code associated with the landmarks in Paris, which is not directly linked to Da Vinci, but with the painter Poussin, and all about an ancient global catastrophe that had threatened life on earth and wiped-out an advanced civilisation - or so it was/is believed. The encoded information in Da Vinci's paintings was supplemented further by Poussin who I suggest was instructed by the same initiates whom Da Vinci was involved with.

Axis also takes the reader on a fascinating and an informative journey through the history of Giza, relating the adventures of its earliest explorers and taking a look at the old and current theories. At the same time we are given a fresh new perspective on ancient Egyptian symbolism and how this symbolism relates to early shamanic experience associated with the 'world mountain', the 'world tree' and the axis mundi ("axis of the world"). I also focus on the myth of the murdered god Osiris whose spine really represented the earth's axis and vice versa - hence the title, Axis of God.

For example, there is the ritual involving the 'Djed Column' (the backbone of Osiris) which the Pharaoh would raise up symbolically. There is also the tilted cross that Jesus carries on his back before it is raised up, and which not only represents the earth's axis but also his spinal column – and it is from this upright position that Jesus, who represents everyman, is able to ascend to heaven - the crucifixion being a metaphor for the Kundalini Awakening experience.

Given that in general, the people and the media are now fascinated with secret codes, Rennaisance and Baroque period paintings, the ancient Egyptian pyramids, ancient wisdom, spiritual and esoteric knowledge, and also secret societies, this book gathers all these elements together and provides answers. It is unique, in that it deals with an ancient code, which is telling us something about the tilt of the earth's axis and for a profound reason, again, perhaps associated with a global catastrophe that almost wiped out the human race.

This book deals with a remarkable new phenomenon, a real 'Code of codes' - and one that has its source in beliefs that have not really been recognised, but are thousands of years old -perhaps belonging to an advanced shamanic-based civilisation that thrived before the catastrophe. The cosmological beliefs of this advanced race, were later adopted by the pagan religions and then adapted and exploited by the Church for the manipulation of consensus belief and ultimate power over the masses. This is what we are being told in the encoded information we find in art, paintings, sculptures, literature, architecture, symbolism etc., which spans hundreds of years of our known history. Furthermore this information and knowledge has been encoded within the Great Pyramid and the layout of Giza in Egypt.

In a nutshell then, not only does this book present a new major discovery about the Great Pyramid of Giza but it also provides the answers to the codes in Nicolas Poussin's paintings and many other sources.

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MAD: As well as the glass pyramid at the Louvre Museum in Paris, your research indicates that the ground layout of Washington D.C. also holds some not so hidden connections to the "center of the universe" ideal of the great Egyptian pyramid complex. We know that the very foundations of America were designed and crafted, by and large, by Freemasons and other Illuminist elements. Could you elaborate on this a little bit?

G.O.: Yes, and this is an interesting sideline.

First of all, I want to say that I really owe the discovery of these 23.5-degree references in both ‘The Vitruvian Man’ drawing by Da Vinci and also the Washington map to Canadian researcher Don Barone. During Nov, 05, and because of his interest in numerous Renaissance and Baroque-period paintings long rumoured to contain a cipher or code, I decided to show Don my own discovery of these 23.5 degree angle references which I had found encoded in various paintings and other important sources throughout history.

I also decided to show Don some of what I had discovered in the Poussin paintings (also related to the angle of 23.5 degrees) to prove to him that there is indeed a code, and one which is pointing to a location that no-one had considered as yet . . . Giza in Egypt. I also told Don, that in many paintings of the Crucifixion, the arms of Jesus as he hangs from the cross are at the angle of 23.5 degrees.

Don then searched for these 23.5-degree references himself, and after a few days he posted the drawing of Vitruvian Man on Graham Hanthingy’s Messageboard showing the arms at 23.5 degrees. He had also superimposed an image of Jesus on the cross over Vitruvian Man showing both pairs of arms at 23.5 degrees.

He then sent me an email with an attachment which showed that the Main Streets on an early map of the Washington DC, and which appear to radiate out from the White House, each give reference to the angles of 23.5º.

The fact that others could find what I had already predicted, proved that I was dealing with a real phenomenon – something that had been overlooked by us all, even though the clues had been “hiding in plain view” and in many different sources throughout our known history – most likely encoded by a secret cabal of people who believed in these things and possibly for good reason.

Many researchers and writers who have studied the aerial map of Washington will often bring attention to the Pentagonal geometry that is said to exist on the Map. However, almost everyone has overlooked the fact that these streets, which converge and center on the White House, are all at the angle of 23.5º. After examining this map for a while I found that New Hampshire Avenue was at the angle of 52º.

The 52-degree street allows us to draw an image of the Great Pyramid, by drawing another 52-degree line opposite which includes the Capitol Building and goes through both the City Museum and the Logan Circle intersections.

Some months before this discovery about the Map of Washington, I had been working on an image of the Great Pyramid. I copied the image and halved it in size and then turned it upside down and placed it within the larger image. I then measured the angles between the intersections and found that these were 23 degrees. This means that the angle of 23 degrees is linked both geometrically and mathematically to this famous 52-degree-sided structure.

It was some weeks after Don had alerted me to these 23.5-degree references in the Map of Washington that I realized that in the map was this image of the Great Pyramid, with its 23-degree angles. I then superimposed the image of the GP over the map of Washington and the White House and found that that it fit quite well considering the amount of area covered. The angles in my diagram of the GP show 23 degrees - as was possibly the intention of the Great Pyramid architect(s) and builders. However, again, we find that the streets of Washington alter slightly from this information and instead make a reference to the angle of 23.5 degrees - which is roughly the angle of the earth's axis at present.

In any case it’s still a good match and, in my view, this is the real encoded information which has been hiding in the map of Washington all this time and its all about the Great Pyramid and the information it contains pertaining to the obliquity of the earth's axis.

My own interpretation is that this design laid out in the groundplan of the US Capital by Pierre L'Enfant in 1791 and on behalf of the Founding Fathers, is a symbolic gesture to this ancient knowledge which has remained largely a secret to initiates only. It says much for those who believe and maintain that encoded in the map of Washington are the secrets of the Masons or Illuminati.

My own theory, as to the reason why the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt is being referenced along with the angle of 23.5 degrees, is that it might have something to do with the ‘fact’ that the Great Pyramid also contains encoded information about the geophysics of the earth’s axis – again, something I discovered in 2002 – and that perhaps this is one of the major reasons why the GP was built in the first place. I reveal this information in Axis of God.

In any case, it is as if the well-informed people (initiates) who referenced these angles, are telling us that the Great Pyramid, or even Giza itself, contains the answers to the mysteries about our past.


Overview of the White House and Capital Building in Washington, D.C.

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Only recently, Eric Michael Tull, a poster who goes by the name of “Roscoe” on Graham Hanthingy's Messageboard, brought attention to the fact that on this early Map of Washington, the Longitude is given as 0: 0. Today Washington is 77° 3' 2.3" west of Greenwich.

I am not surprised that we find an image of the GP and the angle of 23.5 degrees encoded within the streets of a map which has the longitude given as zero. Researcher Jim Alison writes that "Jefferson attempted to get the zero meridian through the White House" - which would mean it would go through the centre of this gigantic image of the Great Pyramid in the map. We might ask why?

Well, this design appears to have been intended based on the belief that the original Prime Meridian went through Giza in Egypt, as marked by the Great Pyramid and it was from here that all local times and distances were calculated.

It was during the early 1800s, that the explorer Charles Piazzi Smyth first suggested that the Great Pyramid should mark the Prime Meridian (longitude zero) and really because his observation was that the Great Pyramid is located at the center of the earth’s landmasses.

Based on his own calculations, in 1992 Prof. Carl P. Munck stated that the Giza Meridian is really the earth’s true prime meridian and "since the last polar shift some 13,000 years ago". Others have said that the Giza prime meridian isn’t the first, but was the first during the post-flood era – having been set-up after the catastrophe involving the polar shift and the resulting deluge. The same people suggest that the original ‘prime meridian’ ran through the centre of Atlantis as marked by the mythical Mount Atlas.

It is said that the original ‘world mountain’ was Atlas – the mountain or volcano that once stood at the centre of the sunken land of Atlantis. In some versions, it is said that Mount Atlas stood at the North Pole with the earth’s upright axis running through it.

There are numerous myths and legends that interrelate with the so-called ‘King of the World’ who remains entombed or “asleep” inside a WHITE mountain located at the centre of the earth – again with the earth’s axis running through it.

This is all purely symbolic. On one level this mythical theme of an upright axis held in place by a mountain, is perhaps a reference to a previous age when the earth was upright – as many believe(d) that it once was or indeed should be. On another level, the “axis running through a mountain”, could be A), a reference to the original Prime Meridian during the pre-flood era, as in the mythical Mount Atlas which stood at the centre of Atlantis and possibly marked it, and/or B), the Prime Meridian that was re-located at Giza by the survivors of the Flood as indicated in this myth of a ‘white mountain’ at the centre of the earth – a clear reference to the Great Pyramid of Giza which was once encased in WHITE Tura limestone.

The ‘Giza’ Prime Meridian has been supported by mathematician Dr. Livio C. Stecchini, author and journalist Graham Hanthingy, veteran author, Colin Wilson, Atlantis theorist, Rand Flem-Ath and author, Crichton E.M. Miller.

Also, the ‘Roseline’ or Prime Meridian really references the body or tomb of Osiris or even his son and resurrected self Horus – the ‘King of the World’ – and not the body of Mary Magdalene as given in Dan Brown’s book.

The importance of this connection is evident in the beliefs of the Synarchists; a shadowy secret society, that researchers are now associating with the Priory of Sion and with good reason. It is now becoming clear that the members of the Priory of Sion were/are Johannites – meaning that they revere(d) John the Baptist, as did the Knight’s Templar, who worshipped a head that possibly represented 'the Baptist' known as Baphomet. Dan Brown clearly has it wrong. If the Priory of Sion indeed exist, their purpose is not the preserve the bloodline of Jesus and its memory by protecting the tomb of Mary Magdalene as proof, but instead are dedicated to preserving the knowledge and possibly the body, head or tomb of Osiris, because when we research into the clues we are given in the story of John the Baptist, we are led to Oannes, the great Mesopotamian teacher and initiator, also the Roman god Janus – which would also explain the Baphomet head kept by the Templars – and ultimately to the god Osiris.

Also, the encoded information in Da Vinci's paintings – many of which feature John the Baptist who is often portrayed pointing his forefinger upwards – was supplemented further by Poussin who I suggest was instructed by the same initiates whom Da Vinci was involved with. Indeed there is a famous painting of John the Baptist by Da Vinci, with John sitting cross-legged - the forefinger of his left hand linked to the right brain pointing upwards while the forefinger of his right hand linked to the left brain is pointing at a 23.5-degree angle.

So taking all this into consideration, it would seem that any city that adopts the Prime Meridian would be recognised as the 'centre of the world', as Atlantis once was according to legend, and there are also esoteric reasons for this which would not have been lost on those who were behind the ground-plan of Washington. We would also note that the glass pyramid - a mock-up of the GP - is situated only yards away from the Paris Meridian which runs through the courtyard of the Louvre. I should also mention that similar to the Washington Map, two main streets of Versailles are also angled at 23.5 degrees.

Today, the Prime Meridian runs through Greenwich in London. The Greenwich Meridian was agreed on at Washington by other world powers in 1884, but still France clung to the Paris Meridian and as a rival to Greenwich until 1911, supposedly for timekeeping purposes.

I would emphasise again, that all this does not reflect my own beliefs. However, I find it interesting that many people believe(d) this catastrophic scenario which possibly inclined the earth’s axis from an upright position, and favour(ed) all associated ideas and conceptions - especially when we discover that information associated with these beliefs has been encoded in various sources throughout history. So I am more interested in finding out 'why' people believe(d) it. Perhaps these people knew or know something we don't - something that has perhaps been known for thousands of years.

Also, my attention has recently been brought to the books authored by Rene Guenon – especially his book King of the World.

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==PART II/EAST==

MAD: While we have some differences of opinion on a few minor points, there are so many fascinating connections of evidence that you bring to the table. I'll try to take things a piece at a time here and come back to some of the topics we’ve already discussed.

Like yourself, and your brother Paul, I would also attribute "metaphysical" experiences with how I first got deeply involved in my own study and attempt to put the pieces together. It all started nearly 10 years ago with a series of intense dreams and what I consider to be OBE's taking place between the sleep and waking states. These occurrences began after many years of prayer in which I asked for answers to be revealed to me, greater awareness and understanding to make itself visible. Some people with similar experiences associate it with "clicking the amygdala" at the center of the forehead in order to completely open the pathways of understanding or "illumination". (Certain drugs might also help to “jump start” phenomena such as this.)

Many nights it felt like fireworks were going off in my brain as a slept, I could hear the frenzied pops taking place in my skull, as an intense light-show stretched across the landscape of my waking-sleep state. Sometimes what seemed like alien languages, or extremely detailed and elaborate multi-dimensional puzzles would put themselves together before me in my sleep; and though I knew that I wouldn't completely remember the insights of what had been revealed to me, at least consciously, on a subconscious level I have no doubt that answers and complex paradigms were being solved by the mysterious workings of these "paranormal" messages. Mathematical equations, geometric shapes and patterns, as well as complex formulas on the nature of reality seemed to be opening themselves up for me to view, and instantaneously understand.

Great realization dawned on me, and though at the time I didn't necessarily associate it with a Kundalini experience, I don't doubt the importance of the upright spine in awakening the energy points along the out-stretched line of the human body; The aligned “chakras” on the path of the “Fire Serpent”. Most of the experiences have happened while I am lying on my back in a deeply meditative sleep state of borderline R.E.M.

While many people have occurrences such as these which happen in their lives, or important events of synchronicity, not everyone will recognize the depth of what they are experiencing. Some might even fear physio-spiritual phenomena such as this which they don't feel prepared for, while others will try to manipulate these natural powers for their own personal gain and exploitation.

Call it what you will, do you think “Kundalini” awakening is becoming more common place as we progress towards 2012, even if some might not recognize what's taking place?

G.O: Thanks for sharing that Mike. I'm not surprised that you too had similar experiences. Those of us who are interested in the paranormal, the metaphysical, also consciousness research - especially those who write about it and have something to contribute - have experienced the same kind of phenomena to varying degrees.

I would say that many of these experiences are indeed related to the Kundalini phenomenon. I have discovered that sensations of a 'powerful energy' within the spine or 'energy moving up and down the spine' - sometimes painful - turn up in a wide range of paranormal literature - especially UFO 'abduction' accounts. It seems to underlie these paranormal and mystical experiences or whatever we interpret the experience to be.

Also, I should mention that my brother had serious problems with this experience. He would sometimes wake up with this awesome energy shooting up and down his spine accompanied by a very loud roaring or rumbling noise in his head. He said that he felt as if he was "plugged into a machine" of some kind. Many accounts show that this experience can be very dangerous, and
Paul's own experiences told him that Kundalini was possibly the cause of SHC - 'spontaneous human combustion'. We have seen this verified in other people's accounts - such as that given by Gopi Krishna, a well-known experiencer of Kundalini who had written books about it.

My own experience was spontaneous, but really problem free, and though the core experience only lasted a short while, the effects lasted for weeks - all the symptoms associated with it. It was after that, when I began to have insights and see the deeper connections - information just popping into my head spontaneously or would arrive via a synchronicity etc.

My brother would indeed relate to the "clicking" sensation within the centre of the forehead". Amongst other things, he experienced this soon after the core-experience and described it thus:

Paul:
" . . . like a headband round my forehead and this pressure, especially between my eyes. It felt like one of those sweatbands that tennis players wear. It was as if I was wearing one of those, and someone was twisting a stick through the back of it, slowly like a garrote. It got tighter and tighter. It didn't hurt; it was just a sensation of tightening and then a click and a release."

As for being taught something profound while you sleep, I too have experienced this - i.e., a book held before my eyes which strange illuminated writing and geometrical shapes forming and separating. Much more could be said about this and indeed my brother and I both received information via these kinds of dreams.

Here is a transcript account taken from a recording my brother made about his own experience of this, and I mention this because what Paul remembered later proved significant.

Paul:
"After the first core experience, quite a few of my dreams involved viewing what I can only describe at this stage, as mathematical equations or scientific data from the pages of an open book held close to my eyes. I can see all the detail of the words up close, but they fade from view and from my memory as I awake. On one occasion I remember a dream in which I was viewing a cartoon demonstration film - much like the cartoon featured in the film Jurassic Park where DNA and its use in bringing the dinosaurs back to life is being simply explained in a child-like way. During this "demonstration film," in which I can remember seeing things like molecules, atoms and cells, I heard someone telling me: "Remember . . . the very thing that holds everything together is the friction between 'yes' and 'no' … I awoke soon after hearing this and this is only one of the rare snippets of information that I have retained from these dreams."

The sentence "friction between yes and no" was a significant clue as to my own understanding of what was taking place during these experiences. For instance Mike, you mention your OBE's "taking place between the sleep and waking states". My brother and I discovered that many, if not all these experiences were the result of having entered the 'hypnagogic state' – the point between waking and sleeping and where one is basically awake and asleep at the same time or neither - again a 'third state' of consciousness. This is the basis of my 'Neutral Point' theory; that our experience of reality depends on our consciousness being divided in two - hence our world of opposites or our dual perception of the world, as evident in the "particle"/"wave" properties expressed in a subatomic unit of energy according to quantum theory. So, its logical that to perceive other levels of reality or even access "other realities" internally, a union or fusion in consciousness takes place between these two divisions we call 'conscious' and 'subconscious', or the 'objective-outer' and 'subjective-inner' states, and this superimposition and union of both would be the hypnagogic state – a kind of 'quantum state'. This is why we find many alchemical illustrations of androgynous figures - a person who is depicted as both male (sun) and female (moon).

I mentioned Gurdjieff's 'Third Force', well its strange that a year after Paul related the above, I was reading a book entitled In Search of the Miraculous by P.D. Ouspensky, which was all about the years he spent with Gurdjieff. And I was shocked when I came to these words:

"Fusion, inner unity, is obtained by means of 'friction' by the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' in man."

"If a man lives without inner struggle, if everything happens in him without opposition, if he goes wherever he is drawn or wherever the wind blows, he will remain such as he is. But if a struggle begins in him, and particularly if there is a definite line in this struggle, then, gradually, permanent traits begin to form themselves . . . 'Friction,' the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' . . ."
-Excerpts from In Search of the Miraculous by P. D. Ouspensky. (PenguinArkana. 1949.)

I would stress that Paul and I had never read this book or had even heard of it before Paul received these words via the hypnagogic state.

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MAD: There can be no denying the existence of states such as these, that we might term “hypnagogic”, or transcendental, visionary, prophetic. As mentioned, many people undoubtedly have similar experiences, but they don’t attempt to decipher the messages and see the greater connections between these events. Or they might even try to turn it off all together and ignore the higher functions that are taking place within the mind and soul which allows for profound phenomena such as this to occur. Some people will either fear it, or not seek to understand what is really happening.

Before we can fully realize the creative potential of these higher sources, we must first open the channels of consciousness and allow for the cosmic energy to flow through our lives. We can never forget our logic and reasoning in deciphering the chain of events taking place within synchronistic occurances and dream encounters, but we cannot be totally skeptical to the existence of phenomena such as this either. It’s astonishing how all the various religions of the world have similar themes when speaking about shamanic trance states.

G.O.: Yes, these states of initiatory trance are fairly common from the dawn of human history around the world. There's more I would like to talk about concerning the events that came as a result of my personal experiences. Perhaps by seeing some of my experiences, people might begin to better understand the synchronistic occurrences in their own lives.

Between 1999 and 2001, I was corresponding regularly with Californian physicist Jack Sarfatti. How I got onto Sarfatti's email list was strange in itself and involved a series of synchronicities which are too detailed to go into right now. In any case, I discovered that Jack and many of the individuals associated with him have experienced Kundalini. Jack’s awakening happened during what appears to have been an "extraterrestrial contact" experience with a "computer from the future". Of course to many, Jack Sarfatti's own "contact" story would seem absurd - even coming from a renowned theoretical physicist such as himself, who once studied under David Bohm at Birkbeck College, London - and Bohm, who in turn, having studied under Einstein. But there are many strange events involving all those who have been associated with Jack Sarfatti throughout the years, many of which involve intrigue, strange paranormal and mystical experiences, synchronicities, a short sequence of deaths regarding those who moved in these circles, also murder, corruption etc. Ira Einhorn, who was once involved with the research being carried out by Andrija Puharich, who still kept in touch with Sarfatti at that time through email and whom I once also in contact with, told me that he had experienced a 'Kundalini Awakening' in which he also intimated having experienced the negative effects of this awakening which then caused him problems. He said that he had to seek help by corresponding with Gopi Krishna and that it took him many years to cool out and adjust to the effects of his experience. Others on Jack Sarfatti's list at that time who say they have experienced Kundalini, included: Doug Groseclose, who had begun his own research program called 'Mindforms' - which incidentally is based on the same insights and concepts I had come to through my own experiences. Doug was also connecting his own insights into the Transcendental Void of eastern mysticism with Jack's PQM (post quantum theory). Another individual who I have had many exchanges with, and who had been inspired to do something practical with my own theories, was ex USAF, Jhan Davis. He actually gave me a detailed description of his 'Kundalini Awakening.'

There were many others on Jack's email list who have had similar "Awakening" experiences - people from all walks of life - physicists, psychologists, journalists, authors, rich industrialists, members of various intel-agencies who were monitoring the list. At first they didn't know that each of them had shared this same experience and that this one thing in common may have actually brought them together. We each experienced synchronicities regularly during our correspondences. Some of the physicists working on 'Zero-Point Energy' - i.e. the 'limitless free energy,' of the vacuum (Void) that our physicists say can be found at every point in space (I say centers of elementary particles) have had Kundalini experiences. Michael Ibison for instance, who was working at Austin, Texas with well-renowned physicist Hal Puthoff (one of the first pioneers of 'Zero-Point Energy' research, who also worked on the government 'Remote Viewing' programme during the 70s) told me via email, that he had once experienced Kundalini. Again both Ibison and Puthoff are associated with Jack Sarfatti.

There are many more connections with these people that you would not believe. People usually become closely associated because of a common experience, and in the case of these individuals and the paradigm of knowledge that has arisen as a result of their close associations and exchanges, and which are associated with what Jack calls 'torsion wormhole stargates', the common experience is Kundalini. Myself and a friend of mine - urban shaman and writer, Mark Dunn – were corresponding with these people when the book The Stargate Conspiracy by Picknett and Prince was published (1999).

The Stargate Conspiracy is an exposé, which attempts to reveal the truth behind extraterrestrial contact, military intelligence and the mysteries of ancient Egypt. This apparent "conspiracy," which has been going on for decades - so the authors say - involves intelligence agencies, politicians, multi-millionaires, international best-selling authors, and some of the world's leading scientists and industrialists. Again, many of these people were on Sarfatti's list and were involved with others who had also been associated with Sarfatti either directly or indirectly throughout his colorful life. Sarfatti writes about his own experiences, also his many associations and the synchronistic meetings and events surrounding them, in his book The Destiny Matrix.

In The Stargate Conspiracy, Picknett and Prince maintain that there is indeed a conspiracy behind the promulgation of alluring information pertaining to a belief that the gods of ancient civilizations were really "extraterrestrials" and that this race of "extraterrestrials" had created and civilized the human race. They say that evidence is now being sought for, and is also being 'unearthed,' to show that this race of "extraterrestrial gods" were here and had actually existed. They also say that there is now a growing belief that the "gods" are back again and that "they are about to return through the 'Stargate' between our world and theirs." They present accumulating evidence to show that "they" have been "communicating through special chosen ones" and have done so throughout our history - "actively directing the way we think".

Also mentioned in The Stargate Conspiracy are the sinister associations we find between people such as Aleister Crowley, Schwaller de Lubicz, Andrija Puharich, Edgar Cayce and Uri Geller. The authors of this book also say that much of the data regarding the new theories then being put forward by Graham Hanthingy, Robert Bauval, John Anthony West, and others, regarding the Sphinx, the Great Pyramid, and the lost wisdom of a lost 'Source' race or civilization, may also contain exploitative disinformation. Also, that the authors and theorists themselves may not be aware that they are being influenced, and that their work is part of an elaborately well-orchestrated plan: meaning that the foundation of belief that many of these new theories rest upon, may have been originally contrived and set-up by a "mysterious covert group" which is still working behind the scenes and is using these theories so as to set-up a new belief system. Of course, Picknett and Prince do not rule out the possibility that some of these theorists and writer-researchers know of this and are actually working on behalf of this "covert group" and their "secret agenda".

I found all this quite strange in view of mine and my brother's own Kundalini experiences and those told to me by the people on Sarfatti's forum list. Understanding how these experiences had brought us together and the strange synchronicities that were noted almost weekly in our interactions and correspondences and which were clearly above and beyond anything that could be planned and implemented in such a scenario as that posed by the authors of that book, I really could not go along with the author's assertion that there was a human-concocted conspiracy involving these people, but rather that something was directing human consciousness in its evolution and that this "something" was the collective consciousness itself - hence these kinds of experiences. Again, I was interested in the author's ancient Egyptian/Giza/pyramids connection with these people and certain individuals and historical events these people on the list had been, and were still, associated with because Giza was where my own insights were taking me.

In my view, what had happened first to my brother Paul and then to me; the profound insights that had come to me and was still coming as a result; also what I learned from my many discussions and projects with others I had met - some of them on Sarfatti's list who had also experienced Kundalini – a phenomenon which was never mentioned in the book by Picknett and Prince I might add - was far bigger; more complex than anything that could be implemented by any human agency.

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MAD: What you’re presenting here is potentially explosive information, though in some cases it should seem rather obvious. The notion that people such as Aleister Crowley, Edgar Cayce, Graham Hanthingy, Robert Bauval, Zecharia Sitchin and others might all be working for a covert plan that they themselves do/did not fully understand; A plan to rewrite history for a “mysterious covert group” that is manipulating information from behind the scenes.

I agree with you whole heartedly that there is a vast amount of propaganda, misdirection and disinformation running rampant throughout the conspiracy, alternative history, and truth movement. We’ve got to try to be as open minded as possible, weigh out all the information and trust our own judgment and intuition. Unfortunately, even the deceptive techniques within the research of alternative history, or even mainstream science, exert just enough truth and merit to gain a considerable following among well informed circles. Even though their might be a monumental deception waiting at the core of these very simple truths, they will serve to propagandize our search for valid evidence in the meantime. As Alex Jones says, “There’s a war on for your mind!” How true it is, how true it is.

Without going into further detail about deception within the ranks of “alternative media” and literary publications, shamanism is a running theme of your work. Do you believe that the "Ancients", the "Shining Ones", had a more complete understanding of these psychic phenomena and incorporated it into monument building such as the Great Pyramids? Would you consider this a part of the "forgotten knowledge", and if so, how talented do you believe these ancient shamans were in their psychic foresight and understanding?

G.O.: I would have to say yes, that these ancient people had a comprehensive understanding of the human mind and body and what the mind is capable of - i.e., that we indeed create our own reality. All the world's esoteric knowledge, wisdom and teachings - much of which is very ancient - attest to that fact. It's obvious to me now that they also incorporated their knowledge and wisdom in the pyramid and other sacred structures and temples. I would also say that what we are able to interpret from such structures is indeed a part of this largely "forgotten" knowledge.

[cavewall]

As to how talented they were . . .

Many of us today can and do experience hypnagogia, so then its logical to assume that our ancestors could too. I discovered that the 'hypnagogic state ' of consciousness, if sustained, is the trigger for the Kundalini experience and therefore most, if not all, paranormal and mystical experience. After all, the altered state of consciousness we call hypnagogia is really the shamanic 'trance state'. Of course entry into this prior state of consciousness was also facilitated by many kinds of techniques –especially hallucinogenic substances.

I would say that it was from these shamanic experiences that knowledge was gathered and a 'system of knowledge' was developed based on correspondences - i.e., the deeper connections between things. Much of this knowledge in its original form has been largely forgotten or lost, but much can be found in the use of magic - especially 'magical correspondences' as practiced by our pagan ancestors and which people still practice to this day.

Although our society has a compliant system to it, which ensures that everyone adhere to certain rules, codes and regulations, our knowledge does not have a system; there is nothing 'central' to it, which can connect it all and hold it all together, and so it remains 'divided' and fragmented. This is why our scientists are still looking for a "theory of everything," which can bring all our fragmented knowledge and experience of the world together, under one equation . . . one Truth. A person when indoctrinated into the 'societal system' can only perceive a 'separateness' between him/herself and everything else, and so one's energy is thus divided; separated, and made purposeless and ineffective. Everything is looked at separately with no understanding of the energy that links everything together. This makes a person divided within. He or she sees nothing but contradiction everywhere because the very knowledge that can connect everything together is missing. As many conspiracy theorists would agree, perhaps this is exactly what those who administrate the running of our societies would want. It makes people more susceptible to manipulation and exploitation - especially if we are confused with this false and contradictory view of the world we have been led to believe in.

As we know, today our knowledge about our world is separated and categorized under many different disciplines and is also further segregated by subject - i.e., compartmentalized between A and Z.

However, this ancient knowledge was very different to the knowledge we understand today, in that it was/is more holistic compared to our own, and imbued with a profound wisdom and spiritual excellence which is more akin to the 'perfection' we are supposed to be evolving towards rather than the 'humble beginnings' we have "evolved" 'from', as is generally believed.

In brief, this 'system of knowledge' was based on cyclical phenomena, as symbolized by the Ouroborus snake which swallows its own tail, and furthermore, the understanding that the cycle itself expresses duality or division - in that it has both a positive and a negative phase. Emphasis was always given and in many different and veiled ways to the two 'neutral points' or 'zero points' in the cycle where positive crosses into negative and vice-versa. This is the point where all duality ceases, and so an understanding of this simple principle allows one to connect everything together . . . everything begins to fit.

In the waking-sleeping cycle, this 'neutral point' - of which there are always two in the cycle - is the hypnagogic and hypnopompic states, and we could say that as regards all opposites, also expressed in time as Past and Future, this state of consciousness represents the 'Eternal Now', the 'Eternal Return' and also the 'Alpha and Omega'. The hypnagogic state then is a kind of psychic "doorway" of "portal" between "worlds" or levels of existence.

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MAD: Gary, do you see a difference in the time frame of what we would consider the first shamans, to that of what we could classify as the Shining Ones or the Anunnaki? Evidence would indicate that the first true Shamans come at least as early as 40,000BC, while the more elitist Anunnaki ideology didn't really solidify in the region of Mesopotamia until around 5000BC. Do you differentiate in what you consider True Shamanism to that of The Shining Ones, and how do your thoughts on Atlantis tie into this?

G.O.: Well these are questions Philip Gardiner and I deal with in the new revised version of The Shining Ones, which will be out at the end of August this year. We do not really differentiate. Evidence suggests that these 'Shining Ones' were 'scientifically advanced' and believed to possess certain psychic or clairvoyant abilities which they, or those around them could often use to their advantage, in that they could easily manipulate those who believed they held supernatural powers akin to "godhood". In addition to this, and as Philip says, they were expert magicians and could therefore easily be perceived as holding the "power of the gods" through their advanced knowledge and their display of tricks.

They were intrinsically shamanic in origin, as their cosmology contains the same key concepts we find in the shamanic tradition. It would seem that their 'power base' evolved from the influence the early shaman had over his tribe and his people which then developed into a 'brotherhood' or 'priesthood', and over millennia into a sophisticated and scientifically advanced community. As Philip wrote in the first version, "These original manipulators had developed the propaganda skills needed to maintain both religious and political authority".

The connection with Atlantis is a cliché many of us have grown tired of reading or hearing about. The time period connected with this ancient continent is so far back in our past that these things cannot really be determined; we can only look at the overall pattern which certainly suggests it and this is one of the purposes of our book, The Shining Ones.

I am certain these things will be determined one day, because throughout the course of our research, much correlating information has surfaced between the central theme and the etymological meanings regarding the names that have been given to these mythological places.

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[cavewall]

==PART III/West==

MAD: We hear these various titles such as Atlantis, Lemuria or Hyperborea, most of which come from a Greek origin or interpretation. We might notice for instance that Atlas is the Greek god of heavy burdens, known for holding the globe of the earth and the heavens upon his shoulders as a punishment by Zeus. The super-continent of Pangea comes from the Greek god of lust and sexual procreation, Pan, as well as the mother goddess Gaia.

The goddess Gaia/Ea herself is the root for the title of EA-rth, and h-EA-ven. Hyperborea was a mythical Greek territory where the sun was said to shine twenty-four hours a day, and along with Shamballa, it's one of the mystical beliefs of the Nazi party and their promotion of the Übermensch.

You seem to indicate that the knowledge of our ancestors was carried over by a previous civilization that reached a heightened level of advancement. Not only scientifically, but also on a psychic level. Do you see more evidence for the theory of evolution being responsible our modern day societal status, or is there an argument for devolution?

Might the knowledge of the ancient shamans have developed naturally over the course of tens of thousands of years, without the need to bring "Atlantis" into the equation? Likewise, do you believe that in discovering the truer version of "Atlantis" we might uncover one of the most profound and important keys to our journey?

One of the possibilities I have concluded is that this land mass was a real place, though its history and name have been infused with equal amounts myth and misconception. It seems increasingly likely that if an Atlantis did exist, it was in actuality a vast swath of mountain regions consisting of territories throughout the Middle East, the Caucasus Mountains, Europe, and into India and Asia. During the great deluge, after the end of the last ice-age around 12,000 years ago, many of these mountains would have been cut off from other regions, appearing as small neighboring islands and protruding land masses.

Part of my theory is that "Atlantis" actually happened in reverse of what the myths state. What is seen as a great sunken continent might really have been a long stretch of mountain regions which "rose up" out of the ocean as the waters of the deluge descended back into a more hospitable environment.

Likewise, this period, around 15,000-10,000 years ago, would have been when the height of migration began to take place with "Alien peoples" throughout the Middle East and Africa, Europe, Russia, India, the Orient, and even into Australia and the Americas. This could be incorporated even farther back in time to 20,000-30,000BC with the rise of Cro-Magnon, and the fall of the Neanderthals. Marking the birth of Venus as a goddess, as well as initiation ceremonies and practices attributed to the icon of the horned shaman, seen as the master of light. The stylized figure of Cernunnos which was honored by the Celts and Druidic priests, or Baphomet which is equated to the Knights Templar (and as you say, the head of John the Baptist).


Da Vinci painting of John the Baptist, notice fingers pointing downwards. Like the two fingers of Osiris, Buddha, Jesus Christ and many other savior icons

The Green Man relates to the vegetation aspects of fertility, agriculture and the natural progression and seasons of the planet. He is a representation of the very cycles of the sun, moon and constellations in their trek across the sky, as well as the origins for many of our holidays which come from ancient pagan traditions. There is evidence of the "Green Man" at least into Egyptian times with Horus and Geb, if not tens of thousands of years prior.

A theory along these lines might finally help in fully incorporating the realized potential of the "cosmic mound" ideal, with the pyramids themselves being a representation for man-made versions of this sacred Mt. Olympus concept. The "home world" of our ancestors, the "fallen angels" from "heaven", as above, so below.

Whatever the case may be, and whatever answers history inevitably will hold, do you believe that a better understanding of "Atlantis" will play a large part in discovering the truer nature and purpose of humanity and our place in the universe?

G.O.: Many interesting points you bring up here. However, from my own point of view, it does not matter at the moment whether these extraordinary people known as “fallen angels” also “neutral angels” I might add – came from “Atlantis”, “Lemuria”, “Mu”, “Thule” or “Hyperborea”; again, none of these places can be determined without a shadow of a doubt as having once existed.

One could say that I’m taking another route to this end, as the reality of a lost land or continent – be it ‘Atlantis’ – would make sense with what others and I have found.

What matters to me now, is the knowledge these people possessed and utilized and which had set them apart from other mortals whereby they were given the name ‘serpent people’ or ‘shining ones’. “By their fruits, ye shall know them” Matthew 7:20.

My own line of work is really the knowledge, the wisdom and therefore the deeper meanings we find in the symbolism we are presented with from the ancient cultures we know of. When cross-referenced, much of the symbolism we find in the myths and the deeper religious, mystical and philosophical knowledge taken from these different cultures appear to have come from a single source and therefore a former time in man’s long history, which would account for these legends of lost lands and civilizations. I would emphasize that like today, none of the early civilizations we know of had a complete and thorough understanding of this ancient ‘system of knowledge’ which belonged to a former time in man’s long history. Its clear that these ancient cultures owe their development to the more ‘elementary’ tenets of the cosmology that had been divulged or passed onto them: but even so, its clear that they didn’t know the whole story or picture, and what had been passed onto them was often fragmentary, also misinterpreted, misconceptualised and further degraded by the new interpretations or belief systems that were forever springing up, and so in the process much of this original ‘core knowledge’ became buried and hidden over time. However, by and large, there have always been the initiated amongst us who have understood this ‘system of knowledge’ that had been developed long ago, and so it’s indeed possible that a number of said individuals felt the need to deliberately encode certain ‘key themes’ belonging to this knowledge in the relevant sources throughout history. Philip Gardiner and I have found this to be a fact.

In his book, At the Edge of History (1989), William Irwin Thompson reflects on the fact that the wisdom and knowledge preserved in many of the world’s myths show that the simple and primitive cultures that presented these myths, are not the beginning of something but the end of something else.

Considering the technology we have today, and the myths that seem to allude to a previous technical and scientific era, we could be forgiven for suggesting that mankind has perhaps come ‘full circle’ and that this has happened many times.

I do think that along with evolution there is also devolution; it goes both ways – as does time, but I will refrain from getting into this at this stage; perhaps this can be covered in another discussion.


Raising of the Djed Pillar

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MAD: I'd like to get into two or three points here in regards to your previous books, as well as "Axis of God". First is the running theme of skull worship, and in the case of Kundalini, reverence to the aligned spine. You have a theory that the Giza pyramids, and the inner chambers, actually represent the human skull, and more importantly perhaps the human mind. The inner mystery of the ages symbolically erected in the form of a triangular pyramid. There's so much that connects here, including the World Mountain, the Axis Mundi, the Cosmic Mound, Mt. Olympus, the Tree of Knowledge from Eden, and even the much honored Djed Pillar and The Ben Ben Stone worshiped out of Ancient Egypt before the pyramid age.

Could you go into detail with some of these topics in particular, and how you believe this connects to the idea of "Singularity"? The symbol of perfection in ancient Alchemy, or even the Star of David, also represent this unity and oneness of the elements; a coinciding nexus of singularity.

G.O.: Yes indeed, and I must say I am impressed Mike by your own knowledge of these things and the connections you are making here. I have a long and detailed answer for you and your readers here that will gather together all the themes you have mentioned which we can then place back into that 'Point of Singularity'.

First of all the subject of skull worship was something that Philip Gardiner was already working on when I began corresponding with him around 5 years ago. At that time Phil was doing some excellent research into the images of Christ's head on the Mandelion (shroud) held by St Veronica. At that time Phil was already working on The Serpent Grail before I got involved. We could both see that this symbolic imagery was also associated with skull worship and we both agreed that the reason why the head or skull - especially that of an enlightened individual was revered - was because this symbolism is really about the Kundalini, as most of these mysteries are, and because the Kundalini enlightenment experience takes place within the centre of the head.

For example, in the biblical story, Salome is asked by King Herod to dance for him and says he will grant her anything she wishes. Knowing that John is held captive by Herod, Salome asks for John's head. Herod reluctantly agrees. Salome then dances the 'dance of the seven veils.' Again, the story is an allegory for the Kundalini enlightenment experience. These 'seven veils' are associated with the power points (vortices of energy) - known in the Hindu system as the seven endocrine-gland-related chakras that are aligned along the spinal column. Salome, like the Hindu Kali represents the 'world mother' and her dance awakens the dormant, "sleeping" serpent energy at the base of the spine, which then spirals up the spinal column. The energy is often described as two winding snakes or serpents.

These two snakes or serpents again, depict the two opposites - the positive and negative nerve channels known as the pingala and ida. The male-pingala is the hot-fire element and the female-ida is the cooling-water element. These two energies travel up around the central nerve channel the sushumna, and upon reaching the head, the energy finds its true expression as what some have described as an orgasmic, "atomic explosion" in the head; a blinding flash of light which is said to radiate outwards throughout all creation like the "big-bang" of the universe. This image is depicted to some extent in Gustave Moreau's painting L' Apparition (1876), where Salome is pointing to John's head which is floating in mid-air with rays of light emanating from it in all directions.

Ajit Mookerjee who describes some of the symptoms associated with the Kundalini 'enlightenment experience' states: "There may be a feeling of the head becoming separated from the body and one may feel headlessness." This is the sensation one has - i.e., that one has assumed the form of a floating orb of light, but more importantly one also feels most strongly that he or she is the source-center of all creation - hence the image of a "detached floating head" radiating light as if it is the source of this light. As we can see there is a spiritual truth hiding behind these skull cults.

And now acknowledging this we can go further . . .

It is said that while in the trance state, the shaman is able to pick up all kinds of information regarding information at the molecular level and beyond - as if - believe it or not - his mind or point of focus is able to "zoom in" internally, and on things at the cellular, molecular, atomic and subatomic levels. There is good, well-documented empirical evidence for this - that humans do have this rare ability. According to Hindu Tantric traditions, reducing one's consciousness down, is said to be one of the seven sidhis ('special paranormal abilities') after enlightenment.

Some evidence for this can be found in the celebrated book, The Cosmic Serpent by anthropologist, Jeremy Narby.

Narby, suggests that the shaman, while in trance, or under the influence of the drug ahuahasca can see or visualize their own DNA and pick up information from this particular field - which is usually subjectively perceived and played out in his interaction with giant colored snakes or serpents. Researchers, other anthropologists and scientists are taking what Narby says quite seriously because he has done some amazing research work into this theory and also has 'hands-on' experience - having spent two to three years amongst the Amazonian shamans.

If the shaman can see his own DNA and the processes that go on at the molecular level and beyond then its possible that he could also visualize the microscopic sperm and the procreative process which takes place after sexual coitus - and if so, then its plausible that the snake or serpent, which we see depicted on the Caduceus - also became a symbol for the small tadpole-like sperm - and this is supported by the ram-headed serpents as depicted on the Gundestrup Cauldron and in the hand of Cernnunos or the 'horned god' which I will say more about in a moment.

Now how does all this fit in with the above about the disembodied skull or head and skull worship?

Well we are being told that the head of the shaman is used to enter the Underworld - being the body of the 'world mother'. He does this by going into trance, (hypnagogic) the fusion of the male conscious (represented by the head of the shaman) with the feminine subconscious (represented by the body or womb of the 'world mother'). Indeed the interior of the earth – the Underworld - was believed to be the body interior or womb of the 'world mother' or earth goddess. It was believed that one could go higher and deeper than this as the trance state can sometimes lead to the enlightenment experience by which one feels that one is at the center, and during such experiences the shaman believed that he had pierced right through to the centre of the earth and the cosmic egg - proto-atom or zero nucleus of all creation - i.e., the egg of the 'world mother' from which he could emerge again as if reborn. The meaning behind this is now simple - especially if we are right about the shaman having knowledge of these microscopic processes.

And in the following we can see that the shaman (Shining Ones) also utilized certain constructions or temples built in special places to be able to access this center of creation.

In Celtic mythology we find an item called the Cauldron of the Head of Hades, which was to be found at Caer Pedryvan, the "four cornered castle" or "fire castle." This castle was a special and magical place, where the people were said to drink sparkling wine. Now Pedryvan or Pedraven strangely means, 'newt'. In Cornish, a 'newt' - or more precise in etymology - an ewte, was a lizard, serpent or dragon. Ewte means, "resplendent mind" and the 'tails of newts' were illustrated as the Hebrew symbol Yod, the first symbol of the god, Jehovah or Yahweh. The original Jehovah was a god of volcanoes and is therefore associated with the Roman Vulcan; as such Jehovah was the fiery ejaculation from the top of the 'world mountain'.

The above about Caer Pedryvan and the etymology surrounding it is taken from Philip Gardiner's research, and this is interesting because the Celtic term, Caer means, 'fortification' or 'castle,' but it also means 'hill' or 'sacred mound' - being the 'primordial mound'. This, again, is an ancient shamanic concept associated with the vortex of creation. So what we are being told here is that Caer Pedryvan, (the "four-cornered, fire castle" . . . pyramid "fire in the middle"?) represents the primordial mound. It symbolizes the matrix of creation itself, and the Cauldron of the Head of Hades (meaning the 'head of the god of the Underworld' - the 'god of the afterlife' – who also personifies the 'shaman adept' who could access this center) resides there and presumably at its center.


Skull and pyramid as center of the universe

Now we ask, why would the archetypal shaman's head reside at the center of the Underworld? And for that matter, why is his head also at the center of the earth, the womb, as well as the female ovum or egg - the largest cell in the body? What was the reasoning behind all this? We are led to consider two things here - 1,) 'the head,' and 2,) the 'tails of newts.' Together what are these two items describing? Obviously a newt, but we can also apply the image of a serpent or snake, and possibly a comet or even a male sperm, "as above so below." We are also being told that the head of this serpent or snake is divine, or contains the 'divine spark' or 'creative seed' - the "resplendent mind." Today, we can see an analogy here with a single male sperm cell which resembles a tadpole or newt, and in this respect the head of the sperm is indeed important as it contains the genetic material to create a new being.

Now the following is important.

When the one triumphant sperm enters the female ovum or egg, and makes its way to the center, the head breaks off and deposits its genetic material within the nucleus of the egg – thereby fertilizing a new pattern.

The above connections seemed right to me. And I am not saying that the ancients knew the structure of the sperm cell by looking through microscopes. But knowing that all things can express the same pattern - "as above, so below" - it’s possible that without a microscope, the shaman could have worked these things out just by observing the same patterns in other phenomena. It could be, that based on the shamanic experience, the ancients understood that the creative process in consciousness is similar to the 'procreation process' and that today we can see the same pattern at the microscopic level. And again, through books like The Cosmic Serpent by anthropologist Jeremy Narby, there is now the suggestion that the shaman, through trance, is able to reduce the focus of his mind and perceive things at the molecular level and beyond, and that he can both observe and interact with his own DNA - the spiraling double-helix patterns which he likened to the serpentine snake. It is also a fact, as Philip tells us, that the brain does not just receive information via eyesight, taste, smell and touch, but also through chemical and particle interaction with the universe around it - not necessarily at a conscious level, but certainly at the subconscious level.

Furthermore, if it is possible that the shaman can reduce his focus to the cellular and molecular levels then why not further? Perhaps this is what constitutes the enlightenment experience - i.e., that one's mind can even penetrate the center of an atom or subatomic particle and again, that this very experience is similar to the resurgence of one's mind right back to the 'proto-atom state' of the universe before the big-bang. If so, then it is indeed possible and logical that an advanced people sometime in our distant past would have compared the enlightenment experience to the creative fusion that takes place when the singular sperm enters the center of the egg.

During many LSD sessions on himself and other patients, Dr. Stanislav Grof noticed that most people would re-live their pre-birth experiences: they would describe themselves being the one sperm struggling towards its goal, and at the same time they would experience being the egg waiting for the one sperm. The fusion of both would be experienced as a fantastic nuclear
explosion of "creative energy, followed by the mysterious differentiation of cells that forms the foetus."

This experience may indeed be an actual flashback to the moment of one's own conception, but this also describes quite graphically, the climax of the internal and psychic 'enlightenment experience' known as a kundalini awakening. The ancient shaman did not have to see a sperm to know what it looked like - he didn't even need to use a microscope. He actually experienced it!

Perhaps this is the reason for the symbolic 'ram-headed snakes' held by the Celtic 'horned god'. As many of us know, the sperms 'ram' themselves against the membrane of the egg to enter it. And so rather than this symbol being modeled on any observation through some technological microscope, this symbol is rather modeled on the shaman's own experiences. He experienced becoming a serpent - a streaking, orb of light, much like a comet with a tail in his astral journeys.

A correspondence was seen in the isolated spinal cord consisting of the skull and central nervous system, which again, is similar in imagery to a single male sperm cell - a cell propelled by a tail. It is only during recent times when we are able to observe the sperm through microscopes that we can actually see things that resemble the shaman's experiences. "As above so below" . . . the inner is the same as the outer and vice versa. Again the shaman need not have seen the sperm through his physical eyes or through some technological apparatus, but he described similar things and a similar process, and because he actually experienced it internally. Again, this experience which has been likened to the fusion created by the sperm and ovum, describes the enlightenment experience exactly! And this is why this experience is seen as a rebirth.

Now if the above is possible, was it believed that the shaman, who is a "serpent being," has the ability as the "resplendent mind" to perform a process, similar to the 'procreative process?' And if so, then is this more in terms of his own consciousness and that of the collective? In other words, are we being told that it was believed that the shaman had the ability to heal and transform himself - initiating a 'rebirth' in himself and those in close proximity to him? That by reaching into himself and that 'source-center of creation,' he could perhaps alter or change the patterns of reality in some way - just like the fusion that leads to the "differentiation of cells that form the foetus" or the new creation? If so, then by what means?

Well again, it's possible that the male head was seen to make a correspondence with the serpentine sperm cell, which competes with 300 million others to enter the female ovum or egg. As said, when the 'One' successful sperm enters the ovum, the head - containing the genetic material from which a new pattern can be formed - breaks off and combines with the nucleus of the egg. And as we have seen, this process also makes a correspondence with the enlightenment experience by which one feels that one's head is at one with the nucleus, 'source-centre' of the universe . . . "There may be a feeling of the head becoming separated from the body and one may feel headlessness."

This is a remarkable connection and I can only say that these two processes were seen as each being reflected in the other - in that the enlightenment experience as associated with the serpent-like pingala and ida nerve channels becoming one at the centre of the head - the heads of the serpents striking the winged orb of the caduceus - was associated with the procreative process in which the sperm enters the centre of the ovum. We can see that both these processes are related to how one is conceived to be born and reborn either through sexual fusion with an opposite partner, or the fusion that happens within oneself as regards the opposite energies of the self which triggers the enlightenment experience - the same process that also happens at the point of death. However if one is unconscious of this process and at the point of death, then one repeats the cycle and is again physically reborn - reincarnated.

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This is what we are being told.

It is being conveyed to us that one can actually become conscious of this process while alive and living, and this is why the 'near-death experience' is related to the enlightenment experience - in that one is wiser ('wise like the serpent') after the event, and has altered, changed, transformed - possessing a higher knowledge and a new perspective on life - as if reborn.

This is also the deeper meaning behind the ben ben stone and why it is placed at the top of the pyramid or the phallic pillar ('world-tree' obelisk) of Atum-Ra - also representing the human spinal column. The ben ben is Atum's (God's) 'seed' - a "drop of semen" containing the genetic DNA material for creation - symbolizing the 'one sperm' that successfully initiates a new pattern of reality. Being placed at the top of the 'world pillar' (spine) means that it is also associated with the human head. In other words, we are being told that the "egg" (represented by the thalamus) is also at the centre of the head and is "seeded" by the chakra-related serpent energies during the climax of the enlightenment experience. This 'bright light' experience is associated with the creative spirit of Atum-Ra - in that it was believed that through this experience one gathered together one's energies and has reached the source-centre or 'godhead' becoming as a 'god.'

Furthermore, it was believed that through his trance-state techniques and abilities, the shaman is the only one who has the potential to initiate a new pattern in the reality matrix - i.e., become the 'One' . . . like the One sperm cell - that can alter or change reality from the nucleus or Godhead - the point of 'Now' or 'timeless time.'

Some have said that the word 'semen' actually stems from the name 'shaman'. The Hebrew word 'Shem' has some connection with the ben ben stone – the seed-drop of Atum-Ra containing his soul, which comes down from heaven to be reincarnated. Meteorites were said to be the seed-drops from Atum-Ra – and of course like comets with tails, streaking meteorites when they enter the earth's atmosphere are similar in shape to the sperm cell with its tail.

Therefore during the enlightenment experience the human head - or rather the shaman's head - becomes one with the centre of creation - as believed to be the nucleus centre of the earth and therefore it becomes one with the 'world mother' and this is the reason why the 'world mother' or 'mother goddess' also possesses the male head, or strives to possess the male shaman's head so as to conceive and give birth to a new pattern. Within this head is also the 'seed of god' who is born again and again as the Messiah or Christened One.

This explains why St. Veronica possesses an image of the head of the Christed One or Shining One on her mandelion shroud which is held in front of her womb. Why the Hindu Kali holds the head of the one she has copulated with, and why Salome asks for the head of the Baptist. The female also represents the subconscious, which the male conscious has become one with to initiate shamanic trance (hypnagogic) and then possibly enlightenment.


From a drawing by Sir J. Simpson.
These prehistoric markings from Scotland have up to seven concentric rings (the cupmark at bottom left).
The 'serpents' penetrating the centre of these vortex spheres resemble sperm seeding and fertilizing the
nucleus of an egg. An analogy can be made with the fusion of opposites or the quantum fusion of binary
values - circle/sphere (female) and linear (male).

This "birth" is the rebirth of the shaman whose consciousness and reality has been altered or transformed to some extent through this experience, and it was believed that with the right individual this experience could be so powerful as to also alter the consciousness of the collective and therefore the overall pattern of consensus reality - hence the concept of the Messiah. This does not conflict with what I said earlier about the original purpose of the Hero or Messiah who is born (reborn) to resurrect the earth's axis (raise up his dead father who is really himself) and bring the axis back to its former upright position.

Again, there is evidence to suggest that people once believe, as many may still do today, that the earth had been upright at one time (Golden Age - Eden - Tep Zepi - Arcadia) and had become tilted, possibly due to a serpentine comet - resulting in the Flood which had almost wiped out the human race and destroyed the homeland of this advanced race known as the Shining Ones, and so we can see how this would all fit.

In any case, the above understanding is expressed in the film The Matrix - i.e., the 'One' - the messiah-come alchemist-par-excellence - who can alter, change and transform things - awaken the collective and save mankind from its own unconsciously-created, self-destructive patterns. It was believed that only the shaman could do this through his own trance-state techniques.

As funny as it indeed sounds, it’s possible that the shamanic-based 'serpent people' thought of themselves as not unlike the serpentine sperms that could 'pierce the veil' between this world and the next and enter the center of the earth (center of creation - also the 'Unconscious') and create a change in the surrounding patterns of reality. This was why the head of the Celtic god Bran was buried so as to protect Britain - it was symbolic of the consciousness of the god residing in the Underworld and possibly at the center of the earth - keeping watch over the reality of the Britons by ensuring a good harvest each year and protection from invaders. I need not point out that this story is allegorical - in that certain sacred objects would have been buried at a particular location on the earth – and especially where the earth's positive and negative lines of force cross each other and cancel each other out to create a vortex - only perceived by the shaman - i.e., sensitives and psychics, and seen to be a void "gateway" into the Underworld. If so, then this was also true of the pyramid constructions and other temples.

All this leads up to the 'skull-pyramid / gland-chamber' theory of mine which will be presented in the follow-up book Gate of God, and this was something that came to me around 1999.

When these insights of mine first began arriving, the mystery surrounding the Great Pyramid was not something I intended to research; the last thing I wanted was for my work to join the queue of "crank" theories. My thoughts were that these insights would suffice as an interesting 'sideline' to the subjects I was already researching in relation to my own experiences. I then put these insights about the Great Pyramid aside and continued to concentrate on other areas of my research. However, throughout the next five years my research would keep bringing me back to the Great Pyramid and the Giza complex.

As many of us now know, the 'mountain-tree-axis' archetype symbolizes not only the axis of the earth but also the physical axis within the human body - the upright spine - as well as the physical and invisible, metaphysical processes (chakras) associated with the spine, the central nervous system and the endocrine glands. Above all, the triangular, or conical mountain with its inclining sides that end in a point - its apex - is a potent metaphor for one's own spiritual ascent to enlightenment – an internal process which I explain in some detail in both The Shining Ones and Axis of God.

Here in this triangular form we have the 'Law of Three'. The sides represent the positive and negative opposites and the apex represents the 'neutral point' where both opposites are united or indeed cancelled out at zero.

The Great Pyramid of Giza, which represents this mythical 'mountain', embodies most, if not all of the metaphysical ideas related to the shamanic 'world mountain' or 'world tree', but like a "scale model" in pyramid form, also contains information about the earth and much more.

So yes, I would say these people incorporated much of the knowledge and wisdom gathered through these experiences into the stepped pyramid of Saqquara, Egypt, and also the Great Pyramid of Giza - as it was with the Ziggurats of ancient Sumer and Mesopotamia, the pyramids of Central America, the Buddhist Pagodas and Stûpas of India and the Far East and the 'sacred mounds' of Europe - most of which have usually seven levels to them. These seven steps or levels are associated with the 'Law of Seven'. We can see that it's also obvious that the Kundalini enlightenment experience, which centers on the spine, and the principle knowledge associated with it, is what these Pyramid and Ziggurat structures are really all about, but do the scholars or academics ever state this?

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==PART IV/SOUTH==

MAD: Speaking of the 7 layers of the Sumerian Ziggurats, coming centuries before the Egyptian pyramids. What are your thoughts on the fact that there are over 90 pyramids in Egypt of smaller size and function than that of the great pyramids of Giza? We see a gradual development for the process and mastery of pyramid building in ancient Egypt, with the majority of them coming before the great pyramid of Khufu. From the Djed pillar and burial mastabas, to the steppe-pyramid of Djoser, there appears to be clear indication of a growth process taking place in the first centuries of early Egyptian monument building and religion.

The initial attempts of building a smooth sided pyramid at Meidum is believed to have collapsed on the workers as they were erecting it, so they had to put up an outer wall in order to stabilize the structure.

Likewise, there would seem to be a clear expansion of consciousness and abstract artistic expression between the early Mesopotamian periods to that of Greek sculpture and artwork coming one thousand five-hundred years later. The stick figures and depictions of bears and elk from pre-historic cave sites are "primitive" in comparison to the popular art style of Egypt, just as Egyptian art seems primitive when compared to Greek and Roman counterparts.

There is an obvious refinement in the process of stone sculpture and paintings between the periods of Egypt and Rome, just as there is a modification and refinement of the language due to the Israelites and Phoenicians.

Minds like Michelangelo's were at work behind feats such as the Egyptian pyramids, but it's clear that the artistic realism displayed in the paintings of people such as Michelangelo or Da Vinci, had not yet been fully developed in Egypt and Sumer. We see periods of "renaissance" taking place in the artistic creations of mankind, coming in bursts every few hundred years. Some things are lost, some things are hidden.

How do you account for this evidence of trial and error in Egyptian pyramid building, and do you believe it ties into the cosmic mountain theme as well as earth mounds/serpent mounds found in early cultures from around the world?

G.O.: First of all, although there is evidence to the contrary, we cannot be totally certain that the Great Pyramid and the two other pyramids at Giza were not built before the other pyramids, and that these other pyramids, which were built by the ancient Egyptians, were not copies of these perfect monuments which may have been built much earlier – perhaps during ‘predynastic times’. Many would take issue with this, but again no one really knows for sure and there is evidence for both sides of the argument and no proof either way. The “jury is still out” no matter how we may feel about it.

The pyramids built by the AE, may have been constructed as tombs, but the pyramids of Giza may have been planned and constructed for something else, but also related to the subject of death, and also the ‘afterlife’ and rebirth. I am of the opinion that the Great Pyramid is a splendid example of the shamanic ‘World Mountain’ or ‘Sacred Mound’ of creation.

Many people are confused as to why there is both a mountain and a tree and why both are referred to as if they are one and the same thing. We would agree that a tree is not a mountain, so why are the two described as if both are one and the same? Well first of all, we discovered that again, this “climbing of the trunk of a tree”, is a metaphor which reflects an internal process associated with the spinal column and skull of the shaman himself – an experience described in many people’s accounts. As for the mountain? Well in his books, author Colin Wilson mentions what he describes as the “ladder of selves”.

Here’s a quote:
"This ladder seems to have one peculiarity. Unlike the ordinary ladder, its sides slope inward so the rungs become shorter. Everyone who has been through some personal crisis knows that in order to develop a new level of being, we need to make an effort of compression – we even use the phrase “pulling ourselves together” to express what we do when we have to achieve a higher level of organization"
Taken from Poltergeist: A study in Destructive Haunting, (Llewellyn Publications), 1993, p. 83.

Wilson’s words are interesting. But what are Colin Wilson and the shaman really describing? Well aside from the Kundalini experience, which again, all this is leading to, and an experience not acknowledged or identified as such, they are trying to portray a simple understanding of the Triad (mountain-body) and its seven levels (tree-spine-axis) – the apex being the point of enlightenment – the zero ‘Singularity’ if you will. Of course these seven levels have also been depicted as a simple concentric-ringed circle – the apex represented by the center of the design.

In The Wounded Healer (1982) by Joan Halifax there is a photo of Aborigine shamans sitting around a ground painting of a concentric-ringed circle. The emphasis is obviously on the center of this circle or sphere – again the ‘Singularity’. This circle corresponds with the concentric-ringed cupmarks which have been found everywhere around the world in one form or another and which we find being pierced right to its center by a serpent or snake.

This circle or sphere represents the vortex – which is really modeled on the vortex within one’s psyche – which is why these shamans also wear this circle on their heads. In the photo we see one shaman sitting in the middle wearing strange headgear that resembles a spiral tower – like a phallic pillar – indicating the vortex and the Hindu descriptions of the bindu point above the head – said to be accessed via the shamanic trance state and the enlightenment experience. Through the trance state the shaman aims to penetrate through to the center of the sphere, like the phallus penetrating the female girl thingy or the male sperm piercing the ovum or egg, so as to fertilize the ‘world mother’ and perhaps produce a new pattern in his mundane reality along with his own rebirth.

Now we can return to the subject of Atlantis and note the symbolism in the story given by Plato, which corresponds with the above shamanic conceptions in regard to the Center and the ‘world mountain’ or ‘primordial mound’ that has up to seven levels.

Again, “By their fruits, ye shall know them”. As I said, I am more interested in the knowledge and wisdom these people possessed and therefore once we know what we are looking for then we can trace this knowledge back to its source. And to this end we find that there are indeed obvious references to the conceptions and esoteric principles that had originated in shamanic experience – also associated with this knowledge and wisdom that the Shining Ones possessed – in the story of Atlantis.

The story of the lost continent of Atlantis was first told by the Greek philosopher Plato. He wrote about Atlantis in two of his dialogues, Timaeus and Critias, around 370 BC. One of the details that interests me concerns the stone that was said to have been quarried from Atlantis. Plato tells us that one kind of stone was white, another red and a third black, and that the hillsides displayed veins of red, white, and black marble alongside deposits of every kind of precious metal. We are told that Atlantean architects used this red, white and black marble to design their buildings with these same three colors tastefully combined and contrasted.

Have I discovered the original source of the theme of Red, White and Black, which we keep encountering on our journey through these myths and legends? Not necessarily. Remember that these descriptions were given by Plato who lived between 427and 347 BC, and could be part of the code that Philip Gardiner and I began to unravel in The Serpent Grail – in that these colors are associated primarily with ‘processes’ that are physiological, psychological and psychical, as related to the trance state and the related enlightenment experience.



As we have shown in The Serpent Grail, the theme of the RED, WHITE and BLACK are related to different states of consciousness based on the Triad. The Red and White are interchangeable but relate to the male-female, positive-negative opposites of the Triad. The Black is the neutral, as found in the midpoint between the opposites and also at the apex – the neutral point. These three colors also relate to the Physio-Kundalini Chakra system and the two nerve channels symbolized by the serpents of the Caduceus – i.e., the male Pingala (red), the female Ida (white) and the central Sushumna (black). We therefore cannot rule out the possibility that these colors were actually associated with this ‘sunken land’, which may have once existed, and may have even been a centre for the ‘Serpent People’ or ‘Shining Ones’ who ruled through their knowledge – a knowledge which they largely kept a secret to themselves.

And if so, then these colors were made to correspond with these processes or vice versa, so that the code could encompass several themes at once, which when unraveled by noting and cross-referencing all the correspondences, would provide people in the future with the same ‘system of knowledge’ that had been understood concerning the nature of existence and reality, along with the place from which it all may have originated. All this was encoded together along with clever inferences made to the very nature of the catastrophe that had possibly lost them their foundation or center. One could say that the theme of the Red, White and Black, which turns up in several of Poussin’s paintings, are actually pointing to Atlantis – as if the colors are a signature by which one would recognize that the painter is alluding to Atlantis. But seeing as Poussin also appears to have encoded references to the Great Pyramid and Giza, then we can see the obvious connections between Egypt and Atlantis that people have been seeing for years.

Again, the existence of Atlantis remains inconclusive. However, the fact that in the Hindu cosmology, the god Shiva is red, Vishnu-Krishna is blue-black and Brahma is white reveals that we are again dealing with a code, which has been spread worldwide and obviously from the same source.

Furthermore, the Hindu myth of Manidvipa is said to be an allegory pointing to the destruction of Atlantis by the Flood and of the survival of its three races – red, white and black races – and in a special kind of Ark. The Hindu trio, Shiva, Shava and Shakti, are often depicted fleeing their destroyed world the ‘Island of the Jewels’ – Manidvipa. But could this also be interpreted to mean that this knowledge was rescued, preserved and carried over?

We are told that these three aspects of the Hindu god also correspond to the three “sons” of Noah, who each symbolize the three different colored races of mankind. Again, we can see the symbolic device of the Triad being used both on an individual level, as regards the three aspects of Self – one’s consciousness – and also on a collective level as the three aspects or ‘races’ of man. Can we take these stories literally? – Loaded as they are with the same symbolism?

We would note too, that in ancient Egypt, where we say the surviving Shining Ones had migrated after landing in Sumeria, the land was divided between 1,) Upper Egypt in the south, which was signified by White, and 2,) Lower Egypt in the north, which was signified by Red. The Nile itself and the soil around the Nile, was Black – as the ancient name of Egypt, Khem, which means ‘black’, verifies it. It’s where the name al-Chem-y is said to have derived, and as we know the art of alchemy is all about the union or fusion of opposites.

But there are more clues . . .
In Plato’s dialogue, Critias, we are told that Poseidon, Greek god of the sea and also of earthquakes, was given Atlantis, and there he fell in love with a mortal maiden called Cleito. Cleito lived on a hill in Atlantis, and to prevent anyone reaching her home, Poseidon encircled the hill with alternate rings of land and water, “two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe”. He also laid on abundant supplies of food and water to the hill, “bringing up two springs of water from beneath the earth, one of warm water and the other of cold, and making every variety of food to spring up abundantly from the soil”.

Again, people tend to take the Atlantis story seriously and literally. It’s true that we cannot really discount the reality of it, as the details may have been based on some truth, however, we can also interpret this detail of the concentric ringed hill as symbolism or allegory, as it surely points to the shamanic concept of the seven-leveled, concentric sphere associated with the sphere of consciousness.

For instance, in Hindu and Buddhist cosmography there exists a central mountain called Mt Meru. Around this central mountain, which acts like the hub of a wheel, there are again seven concentric circles of water, each separated by seven circles of land including a range of golden mountains.

Returning to the Atlantis myth, the hill on which Cleito lives encircled by alternate rings of earth and water, is obviously based on the shamanic world mountain or ‘primordial mound’ of creation as we have seen in the stepped pyramid, the Mesopotamian Ziggurats and even Silbury Hill. The earth and water correspond with the male and female opposites, and the two springs – one warm and one cold, correspond with the two opposite nerve channels – the Pingala, which channels the hot, active “fiery” energy related to the male, and the Ida, which channels the cooling energy related to the female This is interesting as we see these same motifs associated with the trance state and the enlightenment experience, in the town of Glastonbury, England.

Legend says that after the crucifixion of Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea brought the Holy Grail to Glastonbury. However, we are also told that Joseph brought two cruets (vessels) with him. Apparently the blood and water (some say ‘sweat’ and therefore poison) that had issued from Christ’s wound, and which makes a reference to the blood and uterine water of rebirth, had been separated out and each contained in one of these two cruets. Again this indeed a reference to the two opposites (pineal and pituitary glands) that are brought together in the Grail (the thalamus at the centre of the brain).

We should always remember that Jesus Christ is based on the archetypal shaman or ‘resurrection god’ and the details given in the Gospels about Jesus and his life can be cross-referenced with the details given in the myths about Horus and Osiris. In any case, it seems that the processes associated with the Kundalini are literally “drawn” on the landscape. We can see this in the account given about the city of mythical Atlantis, and unfortunately we cannot confirm this, but we can confirm it at Glastonbury.

The name ‘Glastonbury’ translates as ‘Glass-borough’. It was known as the ‘Isle of Glass’ due to the calm, still, glass-like appearance of the sea, or lake, which surrounded the Tor. The deeper significance of Glastonbury and its central mound, the Tor, also stems from the two unusual springs, which are said to have emerged from a cave entrance under the Tor. One of these springs is known as the White Spring, as it contains white mineral deposits, which give it a milky-white appearance, and the other is known as the Red Spring, due to its rust-red, iron content. Again, in their many interpretations, the colors as regards male and female opposites, are interchangeable, and so like the blood of the snake, the red spring is said to have regenerative healing properties. Here we have yet another reference to the familiar theme of the Red and White – but this time we see it in the real phenomena surrounding Glastonbury Tor which is said to have been a central place of initiation for the shaman-like pagans and Druids of the region.

Here again, we have a ‘primordial mound’ surrounded by seven concentric rings or levels, (a reference to the seven chakras in the body) and which was once surrounded by a sea; an upwelling vortex, along with two energy springs attached to it like the pingala and ida serpents or nerve channels – each representing the two divisions in consciousness becoming one at a central point.

The significance of this was not lost on the pagan-priests who obviously believed this place to be the perfect ‘portal’ or ‘gateway’ into the Underworld as it reflected the fusion that goes on in the mind and body of an individual during the enlightenment experience. In the Grail romances this fusion is the ‘healing’ of this division as allegorically told in the plight of the wounded Fisher King whose wound will not heal, until someone reminds him of this division and loss, by asking the question “Whom does the Grail Serve?” – thereby bringing the feminine principle to his attention which then heals and illuminates him. Perhaps in a strange way this explains why Cleito lived on top the hill, as if she represented the wisdom of the risen and awakened Kundalini, as the archetypal Goddess does indeed, and also why Poseidon prevented anyone from reaching her therefore denying anyone this knowledge and wisdom – and perhaps for a reason. Could this knowledge have anything to do with the catastrophe that had befallen the earth, resulting in the destruction of Atlantis?

Like the circle associated with the female, the symbolism associated with the World Tree (male – phallic) is also loaded with clues in this regard and also as regards the migration and ‘rebirth’ of this ‘shining ones’ culture whose homeland was lost as I hypothesize.

In the Hindu text, the Mahabharata, the Asura (angel) capital city of Tripura (“Triple City”) is similar to Plato’s descriptions of Atlantis. It expresses three concentric parts like Atlantis, which is divided into three concentric parts by canals. During the war between the Devas (angels) and the Asuras (demons) the city of Tripura is sent burning to the bottom of the “Western Ocean”.

I would emphasise that in all these stories, as with the Temple of Solomon, which people tend to take too literally, we are really dealing with allegories that are telling us something profound about the human mind and the human physical system and they are all really leading us back to ourselves.

----------

MAD: Fascinating Gary, I hope we can have a discussion sometime covering Glastonbury and the Druidic customs and initiations heralding back to traditions in the days of the “Shining Ones”. It would be nice to delve more into the rise of Christianity and Catholicism in in relation to the Celts and Ireland.

In getting back to the subject of the skull for a moment if I could, and reinforcing your theories of the pyramids representing the human head, I've come across information and conclusions myself that the triangular shape was actually meant to symbolize the nasal cavity of the human skull.

Inward being the secrets and mysteries of the human consciousness and intellect, coinciding with the ancient knowledge of astronomy and temple alignment in conjunction with stars and constellations. The workings of cosmic precessions, solar and lunar eclipses, and a detailed understanding of the agricultural cycles of the planet. Other theories state that the triangular shape represented the rays of the sun as they descended from the heavens to the earth through the clouds.

Many of us know of the square and compass used for masonry and design, which are also two of the main symbols representing the modern day Freemason societies. Perhaps the best understanding of the compass is in being used to draw drawing perfect circles, in the Egyptian pyramid's case, 360 degree circles. (We also notice that the square and compass are both triangular shaped tools.)

There is evidence that the pyramids were built around the understanding of PI, which is the ratio of a circle's circumference to that of its diameter. Since many researchers believe that it was early Egyptian culture which first formulated this perfected 360 degree spiral, I wanted to ask you some of your thoughts about the relationship of the circle in the pyramids, as opposed to the triangular shape of the walls, and square shape of the base. Circles of course represent the cyclical pattern of nature, the shape of the sun, the moon, the planets, or even the serpent of the Ouroboros eating its own tail into infinity. Do you believe that the Ancients had knowledge of the spherical and rotating nature of planets? Might this “perfect circle”, this PI, also be one of the main codes of the great pyramids?

G.O.: I am sure it is. However I have not gone into this PI relationship in any great detail. I am certain that the ancients had knowledge of the spherical and rotating nature of the earth. The pyramid really is a miniature model of the earth - something that many researchers have already acknowledged. However, in view of what I have discovered concerning information about the earth's axis hiding within its geometrical structure, it must now be acknowledged that the GP is also a model of the whole earth in miniature - not just the northern hemisphere - and contains simply-encoded, detailed knowledge regarding the geophysical dynamics of our planet.

Although it is obviously pyramid in shape, it is also a gigantic representation of the human head and brain, as I will show in the follow-up book to Axis of God. I can only conclude that the Great Pyramid contains a code and has always stood as a monumental almanac to a lost culture and its knowledge, which was highly scientific but also very simple - so straightforward and subtle, that it generally escapes us.

----------

MAD: There is just so much to talk about Gary, and I thank you for giving us the time to go over some of the main themes of your research. I sincerely hope that you'll be interested in doing a follow-up interview somewhere in between The Shining Ones re-release in August, and the release of Axis of God in early 2007. Best of luck to you in the new publication, I'm sure it will be a success.

G.O.: Thank you Mike, and I would enjoy doing another interview with you.

MAD: In closing today, for some, elements of this information might be confusing. Answers don't always come overnight, even with a Kundalini type of experience and third-eye awakening. Is there any final message you would like to leave our readers with?

G.O.: Yes. I want to emphasize that there are of course very serious negative effects associated with Kundalini – especially the more 'spontaneous' awakenings, which is why I would say that a “control system” is being implemented as regards the “awakening” of the collective. I would say that the UFO and “Abduction” phenomena are definitely related to this.

Above all, we should be aware of the fact that arousing or ‘awakening the Kundalini’ energy within oneself – which is really oneself ‘awakening’ to it – is dangerous. Perhaps this is something we could talk about in the next interview, as it is very detailed but also important.

Thanks again Mike.

==========

MAD is an administrator at www.nwowatcher.com and co-host of its weekly Revolution Radio program. The archives can be found at www.revradio.org .

Gary Osborn is the co-author of the underground bestselling books “The Shining Ones” and “The Serpent Grail”. His upcoming work, "Axis of God" will be available in early 2007.


FURTHER RESOURCES:

-The Website of Gary Osborn:

-Gate of God Part I:

-Gate of God Part II:

-Gate of God Part III:

-23.5 degrees - Illustrated Edition:

-Two-Three, or not Two-Three?:

-Snakes and Ladders- An Interview W/ Philip Gardiner:


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